I'm putting Monster on painkillers. I can't keep worrying about whether or not he's in pain and I can't put him through a traumatic vet check for no better reason than "maybe"... So, now he'll be on pain meds as a diagnostic tool: if his behavior is affected he's most likely in pain (and needs to be checked out thoroughly), if nothing changes he's most likely physically fine (and I'll hopefully be able to let go of any nagging worries). So far:
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| Zzzzzzzzzzz... |
The medicine isn't supposed to be a sedative, not even as a possible side effect, but Monster is
sleeeeepy... Most likely it's pure coincidence, we
just started the meds after all, but I'm frantically over analyzing everything right now. I don't even know which result I'm hoping for, so I'm all over the place. Hopefully I'll calm down and at least
sort of try to be a little bit rational in my evaluation soon... But it's hard!
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| Calm down... Here, come share my blankie... Zzzzzzz... |
How is Monster doing? What type of painkillers did you put him on? I didn't know he was in pain =(
ReplyDeleteHe's on regular dose NSAIDs. I don't KNOW that he's in pain - he may not be - this is just a way to see if his behavior issues may be caused/influenced by pain. If his behavior is modified by painkillers, then he's most likely in pain and we have to try to find out why and fix it, if nothing changes he's most likely not in pain and I don't have to have this nagging doubt in the back of my head anymore.
ReplyDeleteSo far I can't tell for sure if he's different or not - it's hard to be impartial! He sleeps a lot, and eats like never before (his appetite is usually weak, at best), but nothing very conclusive... I haven't managed to post anything about it because whenever I try I just get caught in a "Maybe... But no! Only... No, nothing... Except...", and so on! ;-)
Hopefully I'll have a clearer mind in a little while.
How are things going with Tobasco?
I hope he is not in pain, it is terrible to have to try and figure out what is wrong!
ReplyDeleteI just got Tobasco's thyroid levels tested, he is normal, so he is just aggressive, no medical reasoning (unless it has to do with his elevated liver enzymes, but we're still trying to work that out) - which, is a mixed blessing. He is doing ok, we had a really good visit from one of my friends with only one blow up from him, but I think it helped that she mailed me 2 tshirts beforehand to get him used to her smell and then we did a lot of things with him (she was a dog person), so he was included and exercised, not like our usual guests where he is locked away somewhere safe. We also did a lot of work with a trainer at a vet and we figured out a protocol for getting blood drawn, the actual hands on exam part is next to tackle. I think he likes patterns and predictability and women over men in general!
I completely understand about the mixed blessing part. On the one hand it's great if the dog is healthy, on the other, perhaps if the behavior was caused by a physical problem it COULD turn out to be relatively simple to fix...
DeleteGreat to hear about your successful visit, it's such a relief to be dealing with people who are willing and able to be part of the solution! Plus (I feel) it relieves some of that nagging guilt - it's not fun to have a dog who scares people.
Good work on the vet visit training! The main reason we're going with pain meds as a diagnostic tool is so we can avoid having him examined unless there turns out to be a pain issue (which I'm currently leaning towards, but still not sure). The vet who's currently "treating" Monster has never actually met him, even. Most likely, if we do wind up having to go through with an exam, I'll have to sedate him myself before we get to the clinic - which of course limits what exams can be done. Sometimes it's really depressing to have a dog with these issues... Still, nothing gets better by wallowing in self pity, right? ;-)
And it's great to hear about Tobasco, and the progress you're making!
I hear you! It's so hard to deal with a dog that goes nuts, both with physically restraining him for everyone's safety and then the emotional embarassment and guilt (what if I did this or that better?)! I *wish* I could say oh, he's a rescue, he came to me this way, but nope, I have to own up to it! Although, just seeing the difference between my two, lends me to believe some individuals are just pre-dispositioned to be a certain way.
DeleteI hear quite a lot can be done under sedation if it comes to that - I mean xrays, ultrasounds, and even bloodwork. I'm sure just a physical exam under sedation would give more info than a physical exam with a snarling awake dog =)
Did you ever figure out if Monster's reactions arise from a fear response, territorial, etc? I know there are not always clear lines, but I can see that my Newf barks and jumps/lunges mostly from excitement and eagerness to get closer to new people/dogs whereas Tobasco's lunges are definitely threats and meant to scare things away (or worse).
I have started with a group to walk "problem" dogs. So far, none of the dogs I've met have as much of a problem as Tobasco, but most are also under 30 lbs. But, it's been good, I think, because he gets to walk near/with other dogs, we start with lots of space and eventually, he can walk side by side after we get going. It's been great to find people that are willing to listen (and obey!) instructions on how to deal with my dog so we can all have a low key walk. I'm hoping it will at least give Tobasco the chance to be around other dogs but not have to interact unless he shows he wants too. Perhaps your neighbors might be willing to follow instructions?
Yeah, if it comes to it the vet will have to do what he can after all - apart from safety issues there still wouldn't be much point in trying to examine him awake while he desperately tries to defend himself.
DeleteI'm not sure about the source of Monster's issues (as demonstrated by my shot in the dark with pain meds), I'd say in my estimation it's maybe 70% fear, 30% frustration...? Mostly, he's quite insecure. He'll shy back from things like a cardboard box making a noise when it moves, or a towel falling off the wall if he comes up against it. I've tried to build his confidence by for example hiding treats in a box, or in a teetering pile of cushions or something like that, but it doesn't really seem to improve (interestingly enough that's something I may have seen some improvement of in the last few days since starting the meds, but it's hard to tell what's coincidence, expectation, over analyzing, etc). He's also very leery of strangers moving suddenly or bending over him, even if he seems to have accepted them at first. It's been a long time now since we were last approached by a dog running free and coming right up to us, so I can't be sure if this is still the case, but in the past in these incidents Monster has initially tried to play the Big Bad, snarling, snapping and lunging, but once they got right up close (as long as it's happened quickly and he hasn't had time to ramp up into a full scale meltdown, at which point he just can't react to any new input) he's usually tipped over on his back or tried to hide behind me. So, scared. (But this could also simply be puppy behavior, he's over two years old now so he probably has quite a bit more to back up his threats these days.) But, I also get the impression he really wants to make friends. I think he really wants to meet dogs, children, and even some adults, but he can't handle the nerves - he definitely means business in the "Don't come any closer"-displays, but whether that's because he really wants the world at a distance or "just" worries that the world is out to get him I can't quite tell. Breed plays into it too, I believe. Not that CCs are in any way mean dogs, I just think that breed mentality decides a lot in what expression a problem takes. Monster (and Tobasco) could probably have the same internal emotional response to triggers if they were of a "softer" breed, but would then react in a different external resolution of those emotions. Maybe. I'm rambling. ;-)
Interesting to hear about the group walks! My trainer has given me contact information to a group just like that, people with trouble dogs who meet and walk together (all using "soft" methods, no corrections or raised voices allowed) in the city nearby. Unfortunately Monster is not quite ready for that yet - even with a muzzle on he can cause injury, not to mention just scare the daylights out of anyone nearby - but it's on the list of "hopes for the future"... Although, I know I keep expecting, on a somewhat subconscious level at least, that all this will soon be over. I keep noticing myself making plans about obedience trials, checking scheduled agility classes, and so on, maybe hoping for these group walks is just more of these vain hopes. I can't seem to accept that this is how Monster is, none of the early plans are really likely to come true. Plus, he's just so happy and adorable (right now he's snoring on the couch next to me, four legs in the air, not a care in the world) - looking at him in a secure, calm environment it's hard to understand that as soon as we set foot outside (or someone new enters the house) he turns into 100 pounds of hard muscles, teeth, and explosive temper...
I wish we lived closer, ours sound so much alike!
DeleteTobasco can be scared of weird shapes/outlines and freeze and refuse to go forward, who would think a 100 lb dog would be scared of a tree stump! I try to play the find it game with treats tossed on the floor to lead him up to checking it out but give him also a distraction until he gets up to it, so he's not so focused. We've been using the find it game when we see people or dogs too, keeping our distance, of course. I think focus is a problem, he locks on and doesn't know how to disengage.
And it's interesting you mention the surprise issue - I have found that if we come across another dog and he has time to see it and lock on, he can have a full blown response. However, if an off-leash dog sneaks up behind us or around a corner, he is usually a little surprised but not growly - they go thru the sniffing ritual and we can move on. He is better off-leash meeting dogs, where I lived before, we had dog parks with trails, so we could walk off leash and come across a few other dogs also off leash, and those meetings were fine. We didn't go too often because I think he is territorial too, so as long as he is somewhere sort of new, he can meet new dogs (as long as we're walking).
Tobasco does the same with strangers, he could seem fine after meeting/sniffing first and then when we all let our guard down, he blows up! We've had some occasions where people come over to eat, and everything is fine until someone stands up - then he explodes.
I also think he wants to make friends but gets in his own way. He has now been lunging/growling when seeing another dog but following it up with a lot of whining - bascially a very confused dog!
I would also encourage you to try the group walk, maybe you have to keep Monster in the car while everyone meets in the parking lot and wait until everyone starts walking and walk 20 feet behind them to start? This seems to help Tobasco, he could see me in the group of people and dogs, then after everyone is there, he gets out and we start walking. I typically use both his harness (front and back attachments) and a Halti to begin with and as we progress I take the Halti off. He is more accepting if the group is there and he joins them instead of him standing around and letting other people/dog pairs join him. Maybe trainer can help you too!
I totally agree with the breed issue too! I think their instincts are just different. Tobasco at home is just so cute too, he is cuddly, relaxed, goofy...
Oh, I agree, I've had the exact same thought - maybe someone will discover teleportation soon! :-D
DeleteI kind of wish I'd be able/daring to walk Monster off leash too - no doubt that's much easier for him, and things become more natural (not to mention I can't mess things up so much). But with his issues extending to people, bikes, etc (baby strollers!), I just can't do it. If something were to happen... I had him off leash this summer of course, while we were off to my old home town, but that was just because I knew there would be no one around, neither people nor animals. So it did nothing for his issues, it was just a chance for him to run free a bit.
Our dogs sound so much alike in so many ways! It's really funny, two dogs on opposite sides of the world more or less. (But kind of sad, too. Our poor little guys...) Pity they can't meet, perhaps they'd be able to understand each other. ;-)
Right now the group walks are impossible, unfortunately. Contrary to the usual recommendations, Monster doesn't wind down with exposure. In the beginning our trainer recommended we try to "follow" other dogs at a distance, letting Monster observe the other dog safely moving away from us, and sniffing the scent where the other dog's walked (and peed, naturally ;-) ), because this tends to work to calm reactive dogs down. Not Monster, he'll just wind up more and more, soon be on his hind legs screaming. Even walking with a dog he already knows (although that's been some time ago now), he'll just ramp up the stress highway, soon lunging and snarling (to his friend's confusion). I don't know why this is, but I suspect that as his fear lessens (when he feels less threatened by the dog moving away, or by already being friends with the dog) his frustration takes over. So while he's usually 70% fear and 30% frustration, equaling 100% insane, he may be able to go down to 10% fear - but then the frustration goes up to 90%, still equaling 100% insane. I'm trying to focus on impulse control lately (something he's not very good at - and I'm not very good at training), hoping to get somewhere with this particular problem. Not sure I'm right about it though, but a "maybe" isn't so bad when there aren't any alternatives. Our trainer would certainly be willing to help at the group walks if/when that becomes a possibility, but he too agrees that right now Monster just can't handle it.
But it's really helpful to hear that Tobasco CAN! It's given me a great deal more hope on that front, to be honest. And I think it must be very good for him/them too, being around people and dogs who aren't "out to get them".
People standing up can be a bad trigger for Monster too, but lately (since this summer) he's developed a very strong reaction to people leaving. Even in situations where I've stopped to talk to someone outside and Monster's been completely fine with it, lying down, ignoring the person, chewing a stick, or whatever - and as soon as the other person turns to walk away he's just exploded in rage. Same indoors, he may be snoring on the floor, people walking around (even over!) him, but when they're about to leave I've had to throw myself on him and wrestle him into another room because suddenly they must die... So weird!
But the stress and hard work sure means a lot of experience, too! I've learned more about dogs (and myself) from Monster in two years than I had my entire life up until I got him. It's a painful education sometimes, but valuable. It helps to look for the bright side, sometimes. ;-)
Yup, the only thing to do is to keep working. I know it's frustrating at times, but really, he's lucky to have you too! He sounds like Tobasco, a really great dog at home and with you. If not for aggression issues, I really couldn't ask for a better dog =) And even though the aggression is a big thing, we're outside for maybe 10% of our day, and we both seem to manage it so we reduce the chances of an explosion, so most days are good days.
ReplyDeleteDo you think Monster relies and reacts based on his vision more than his sense of smell/hearing? I have found that if I cover Tobasco's eyes, he's less likely to react (I mean while we're in the car and there's something outside or if we're out somewhere and he's locked on. I read somewhere many aggressive/fearful dogs don't use all their senses and react on sight w/o pausing to think or figure stuff out. I think it's great you're working on impulse control and I know you did scent work with Monster before too.
In the end, I too have learned so much about dogs, about myself, about people around me, about training - imagine if we had easy dogs, life would not be so interesting!
Hang in there - I know some days are tough, but judging yourself harshly also doesn't help, I guess the thing is to try to take it how dogs do, just in the moment and not dwell on things. Always hard to do, but I think a worthwhile aspiration, at least for me!
Oh, same here, Monster really is the most amazing dog. He is absolutely worth it - I'm just sad for his sake more than anything, if that makes any sense.
DeleteFunny you should mention the senses, I just made a video showing Monster engaging his nose after a tense moment. I too find that his reactivity is closely linked to his vision. When he's completely wound up, I don't think he can process scent information at all!
You're absolutely right about not dwelling, it only makes things worse. As you say it's not always so easy to manage, but it's at least always worth keeping in mind!
Tack för din lärorika och roliga blogg. Jag hoppas det inte är alltför oartigt att kommentera på svenska; min engelska är inte i klass med tidigare kommentatorers. Alls! Det jag tänker, när du skriver om hur Monsters aptit ökat rejält och snabbt efter medicinering, är att han har ont i munhåla-svalg-hals. Mina hundars aptit har iaf inte påverkats när de, av olika andra anledningar, har ätit smärtstillande. Jag önskar både dig och Monster framgång i diagnosticerandet. Varma hälsningar Anneli
ReplyDeleteVad kul att du gillar bloggen! Givetvis är det helt OK att skriva på svenska - jag skriver på engelska för att inkludera fler, absolut inte för att exkludera någon! Det finns inget som helst tvång att skriva på engelska - jag kan ju svenska så det vore ju bara fånigt av mig! =)
DeleteTack för ditt tips om att Monster kan ha ont i ät-apparaturen ;-) , det blir alltmer min misstanke också (främst halsen). OM han nu har ont någonstans alls, vilket jag fortfarande inte är helt säker på. Jag velar åt än det ena, än det andra hållet än så länge...
Tack för kommentaren och lyckönskningarna!